DasWoelfchen schrieb am 04.02.2024 21:19:
KarlderEinfaeltige schrieb am 04.02.2024 17:45:
DasWoelfchen schrieb am 04.02.2024 17:26:
FIAE-Flix schrieb am 04.02.2024 16:24:
Auf der gleichen Seite gab es übrigens damals reichlich Bilder von Militärfahrzeugen auf Seiten der Separatisten, über die damals nur die russische Armee verfügte.
Es gab aber schon 2014 reichlich Berichte darüber, dass reguläre ukrainische Truppen überliefen oder entsprechendes Militärgerät von den Separatisten "konfisziert" wurde:
Klar gab es auch übergelaufene Armeeeinheiten, aber woher kam die Ausrüstung, die nicht von der ukrainischen Armee benutzt wurde? Und woher die russischen Soldaten?
Mark Galeotti: Putin’s Wars. From Chechnya to Ukraine. Osprey, 2022, ISBN 978-1-4728-4755-3, S. 188, https://books.google.de/books?id=yvRfEAAAQBAJ&pg=PT154:
In August 2014, the Russians deployed an estimated 3,500–6,500 troops into Ukraine, growing to a peak of some 10,000 by the end of the year. There had already been small detachments from the 2nd and 10th Spetsnaz Brigades, the 106th Guards Airborne Division and the 45th Guards Airborne Spetsnaz Regiment. Then, elements of the 9th and 18th Motor Rifle Brigades were deployed to prepare the ground. The first wave of regular combat forces saw the introduction of Battalion Tactical Groups (BTGs) drawn from fully ten manoeuvre units: the 17th, 18th, 21st and 33rd Motor Rifle Brigades, the 31st Guards Air Assault Brigade, the 2nd Spetsnaz Brigade, the 104th and 247th Air-Assault Regiments and the 137th and 331st Airborne Regiments. At this point, the age of so-called ‘hybrid war’, one in which disinformation, deniable political operations and other non-kinetic means are at least as important as the actual fighting on the battlefield, was virtually over. Instead this was looking much more like a conventional, even if undeclared, war in which both sides fielded mixes of regular forces and militias in sporadic, but brutal conflict.
Dieses Zitat habe ich schon öfter gehört, aber es widerspricht 2 Aussagen von ukrainischen Offiziellen und einer vom Chef der OSZE Beobachtermission:
1. der Chef des ukrainischen Inlandsgeheimdienstes SBU sagte am 10. Oktober 2015 (!):PYATYKHATKY – The Security Service of Ukraine (SBU) has registered the involvement of 56 Russians in the military actions against Ukraine, SBU Chief Vasyl Hrytsak said.
‘We documented involvement of 56 Russians in the military actions against Ukraine from the moment the military conflict unfolded,’ he said at a press conference in the village of Pyatykhatky, where the SBU basis located.
https://www.kyivpost.com/post/6779
2. Der ukrainische Geralstabschef im Januar 2015:
Armeechef: Keine russischen Einheiten in der Ostukraine
18.21 Uhr: Der ukrainische Generalstabschef Viktor Muschenko hat Behauptungen der Regierung in Kiew widersprochen, reguläre russische Armee-Einheiten würden aufseiten der Separatisten in der Ostukraine kämpfen. Dass russische Soldaten an den Kämpfen beteiligt seien, sei belegt. Aber: „Wir kämpfen nicht gegen Einheiten der regulären russischen Armee“, sagte Muschenko örtlichen Medien zufolge am Donnerstag in Kiew. Zu Vorwürfen auch der Nato und der USA, Russland liefere Waffentechnik, darunter Panzer, sagte er nichts.https://www.focus.de/politik/ausland/ukraine-krise/ukraine-krise-kiew-motiviert-soldaten-mit-abschusspraemien_id_4438784.html
3. 2018 sagte Alexander Hug, Chef der OSZE Beobachtermission:
FP: What’s the OSCE’s official stance on Russia’s involvement in Eastern Ukraine?
AH: If the question is what we have seen on the ground, we would not see direct evidence. But we have seen convoys leaving and entering Ukraine on dirt roads in the middle of the night, in areas where there is no official crossing. In one border area, we’ve also made this public, including some footage we have put out. We have seen specific types of weapons that we have described in detail, including electronic warfare equipment. We have spoken to prisoners taken by the Ukrainian forces who claim to be members of the Russian armed forces fighting on rotation in Ukraine. We have seen men with the insignia of the Russian Federation, but you can buy this jacket anywhere. We have also seen the insignia of Germany, Spain, and others—but also of the Russians.
https://web.archive.org/web/20181025173036/https://foreignpolicy.com/2018/10/25/counting-the-dead-in-europes-forgotten-war-ukraine-conflict-donbass-osce/
Also 10.000 russische Truppen in der Ostukraine und der SBU, der Generalstabschef und die OSZE haben dafür keine Beweise. Seltsam.
Die russischen Truppen in der Ukraine waren natürlich alles Urlauber.
Anna Arutunyan: Hybrid Warriors. Proxies, Freelancers and Moscow’s Struggle for Ukraine. Hurst & Company, 2022, ISBN 978-1-78738-795-9, S. 165–166, https://books.google.de/books?id=33KMEAAAQBAJ&pg=PT184:
On 21 August, Colonel Andrei Lysenko of Ukraine’s National Security and Defense Council announced that Ukrainian troops had captured two armored vehicles belonging to unit 74268 of the 76th Pskov Airborne Division just outside Luhansk. That same day, Ukrainian bloggers published photographs of the names and personal items of the crew, who were nowhere to be found. Among the belongings left behind were those of Ilya Maksimov. It wasn’t the first allegation that Russians were fighting in Ukraine, but it was the first piece of evidence of not just Russian nationals or Russian kit, but of regular, serving soldiers of the Russian armed forces. On 25 August, journalists in the Pskov region uncovered two fresh graves belonging to soldiers from the 76th Division, after a funeral attended by about 100 people the same day. At the cemetery, the journalists were approached by men in black and under threat of violence ordered to leave the city.
Und dass "Separatistenführer" Alexander Sachartschenko die Ankunft von 1.200 russischen Soldaten ankündigte, war sicher auch nur Zufall:
S. 168:
On 15 August, DPR leader Zakharchenko announced the “joyful news” that a substantial reinforcement had arrived from Russia, consisting of at least 150 armored vehicles, thirty tanks and, most important, 1,200 servicemen “who had undergone training in Russia.” Less than a week later, Ukraine’s Security Council would announce the capture of those Russian armed vehicles manned by Russian soldiers, including Ilya Maksimov. And on 25 August, Ukraine’s Security Service captured ten soldiers who were part of an airborne battalion dislocated to Rostov and then ordered to march into Ukraine along with a column of infantry fighting vehicles.
Und wie kommt die Ausrüstung, die nicht von der ukrainischen Armee eingesetzt wird, in die Ukraine?