chrygel schrieb am 25.04.2023 16:30:
Alex Riemenschneider schrieb am 25.04.2023 15:50:
chrygel schrieb am 25.04.2023 13:53:
Auf der anderen Seite muss die Frage erlaubt sein, ob es in der aktuellen Situation nicht im Interesse der vor Ort Betroffenen ist, die Eskalationsspirale und den Kreislauf von Gewalt, Zerstörung und Tod zu unterbrechen. Auch auf die Gefahr hin, dass Russland seine eroberten Gebiete behalten, konsolidieren und das bisherig erreichte als Erfolg verbuchen kann.
Die Berichte der Vereinten Nationen beschreiben aber, dass die "Eskalationsspirale und der Kreislauf von Gewalt, Zerstörung und Tod" nicht endet, wenn Russland die Gebiete besetzt.
Das kann man ignorieren, muss man aber nicht.
Klingt ziemlich aus der Hüfte geschossen und dient nicht der Diskussion sondern alleine Ihrer persönlichen Meinungsmache.
Welche Diskussion? Du hast bis jetzt nicht diskutiert sondern nur "eine Frage gestellt".
Hier ein paar für die Diskussion relevante Fakten.
- Gewalt:
75. In areas under prolonged Russian control, and in more permanent detention facilities, additional methods of torture were used. One such method was electrocution with a military phone called ‘Tapik’ connected to an electricity cable with clips applied on feet, fingers, or men’s genitals. The perpetrators referred to this as “call to Lenin” or “call to Putin”. Other methods included hanging detainees to the ceiling with hands tied, called “parrot position”, strangling with cables, suffocating with plastic bags or gas masks, rape, and other sexual
violence (see paras. 81 and 82). Victims witnessed the death of co-detainees following severe torture.
76. In the Russian Federation, confinement at times started with an abusive “acceptance procedure”. Victims reported electric shocks with a taser, beatings with a baton, suffocation with plastic bags, and forced nudity in front of others (see para. 81). A former detainee underwent beatings as a “punishment for speaking Ukrainian” and for “not remembering the lyrics of the anthem of the Russian Federation”. One woman said that she passed out a few
times from beatings, but perpetrators woke her up to continue.
https://www.ohchr.org/sites/default/files/documents/hrbodies/hrcouncil/coiukraine/A_HRC_52_62_AUV_EN.pdf
- Zerstörung:
This is particularly true in occupied parts of Ukraine, including Crimea and eastern Ukraine, where efforts are being made to erase local culture, history, and language in cultural and educational institutions and to forcibly replace them with Russian language and with Russian and Soviet history and culture. Ukrainian history books and literature deemed to be “extremist” have been seized from public libraries in cities and towns in the occupied territory of Luhansk, Donetsk, Chernihiv, and Sumy Oblasts and destroyed by the occupying power. The same has been reported about school history manuals in certain cities.
https://www.ohchr.org/en/press-releases/2023/02/targeted-destruction-ukraines-culture-must-stop-un-experts
- Tod:
45. In one documented case, three civilians – a young woman and an older couple – were killed in the yard of a private house on Tarasivska Street in Bucha.40 The older couple – a 64-year-old woman and 65-year-old man – were the owners of the house.
46. On 16 March 2022, a young Russian soldier brought the third victim, a 23-year-old woman, into the yard of the house. She appeared to be injured and bleeding rom the groin area.41 He installed her on a sofa outside the house and attempted to stop her bleeding. The female owner of the house emerged and helped to treat the victim with a makeshift tourniquet. The soldier then left the yard and went out to the street.
47. Soon thereafter, an officer in a uniform of a sandy colour approached the house from another direction. He entered the yard and immediately opened fire on the two women. Both were killed instantly. Hearing the shots, the male owner of the house rushed outside, and was also shot dead. The officer then left the yard and started shouting at the group of Russian soldiers standing in the street.
48. The daughter of the victims indicated to OHCHR that the bodies of her parents
and the young woman were buried in a makeshift grave. She stated that they were
later exhumed on 15 or 16 April 2022, and the forensics report concluded that her
parents were killed by gunshots
https://www.ohchr.org/sites/default/files/2022-12/2022-12-07-OHCHR-Thematic-Report-Killings-EN.pdf
Also für mich erscheint das relevant für die Diskussion die Du gerne führen möchtest.